What Does AMD Offer the HTPC Customer?


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It’s all about the hardware!

Perhaps by now, the idea of an HTPC has caught your eye – but what is AMD doing to help things along? This is a fun topic for me, one of my key roles here at AMD is to help define and enable cool new platforms. I get to work with both AMD customers to understand their needs and key AMD partners/industry leaders to enable those new platforms. One of the more recent projects I have worked on is our AMD LIVE! Home Cinema platform, affectionately known as “Maui”.

With this Maui platform, I had the pleasure of working with Intersil’s D2Audio team and MSI to define a unique platform that targets the HTPC space. The goal here was to develop a specification for a platform that focused on the needs of the HTPC space. We wanted to define a platform that would not only deliver an outstanding HD experience, but make it easy to set up and use.

Maui, in reality is the specification MSI used to develop their MSI Media Live Diva platform. What is unique about this platform is that it was purpose built for a specific application.

msi-diva-live-ports

At the heart of the MSI Media Live Diva platform is our own AMD RS780M chipset. This chipset is a great solution for playing back HD Video content. I am not saying that just because I work here, but because the 780 family chipset supports full HD resolutions including 1080p, 1080i and 720p. It is capable of playing back Blu Ray discs, stutter free. You can even play DirectX 10-level games. To further enhance the video capabilities of this platform, MSI added 128MB of dedicated sideport memory. If you want, here is more information on the 780 series of AMD chipsets.

Now, I know some people are probably thinking, “So, it has great video capabilities, there are other platforms that do that as well.” While this is true, there is more to this platform that just great video…it also has great audio. This is not your typical PC level audio, I am talking about true, AVR class audio. Furthermore, the audio is scalable to meet your needs. MSI offers both a 5-channel amplifier version and/or a 7-channel pre-amplifier version.

msi-diva-live-5-channel-amp

5.1 Channel x 100W Amplified Card (MS-4140)

msi-diva-live-7-channel-pre-amp

7.1 Channel Pre-Amplifier Card (MS4141)

Yep, that’s right, true AVR class audio in either an amplified or pre amplified format!

So let’s talk about that for a moment. Key factors in overall audio quality are Signal to Noise ratio (SNR) and Total Harmonic Distortion (THD). The higher the SNR and the lower the THD, the better the audio will sound at both low and high volumes (not that any of us listen to our music loud or anything). The audio capabilities of this system are much better than typical PC audio solutions and on par with mainstream AVRs from leading consumer electronics vendors, and I’m not just talking about the low-end AVRs, but their more expensive brothers.

The 5 channel amp card (yes, that is really an amplifier) has a SNR > 105dB and a THD+N factor of < 0.1%. This allows you to connect up to your home stereo speakers directly without needing an expensive amplifier just to get good audio.

Now, that is great if you don’t have a nice amp, but what about the person that has already invested $$ in a nice amplifier? Well, the 7 channel pre amp card has an SNR > 112dB and THD+N factor of < 0.01%. It is capable of driving a very high quality audio signal directly to your amplifier via the multichannel inputs on your AVR.

What about ease of use?

Previously, most HTPC products were based upon traditional, off the shelf PC motherboards. While this is generally not an issue, many of these PC motherboards have legacy PC connections that are just not useful in an HTPC environment. For example, most boards still have PS-2 Keyboard and Mouse connections, some have serial ports and/or parallel printer ports. Many still use 3.5mm audio jacks for their audio connections. These connectors add little value in the Audio/Video (AV) centric environment, which is where the HTPC sits. Now, legacy PC motherboards have gotten a little better over time, they are still not always easy to integrate into your home entertainment stack.

The MSI Media Live Diva on the other hand, has a much more AV centric design. Looking at the back panel for example, you will notice that those legacy PC connections have been replaced by more AV centric connections.

msi-diva-live-ports-zoom

For video connectivity, you have Component Video, VGA and HDMI allowing for connectivity to just about any HDTV screen. For audio, as mentioned, you can drive directly to your speakers or connect to an AVR using standard, RCA cables. No need to find special adapters or expensive cables to try and connect to your other equipment.

Here are just a few thoughts from both reviewers and customers on this platform:

“Overall, I can definitely recommend this platform as Windows Vista media PC platform. It will blow away almost anything else except for perhaps custom gaming machines, and it will be easier to use than most alternatives…Sound quality with this amplifier and motherboard are top notch.” – William Wong, Electronic Design

“For under $1000, System Builders should be able to put together a system that accomplishes everything the AMD Maui PC can do and then some. The platform proves to be an excellent path to a dual purpose system, which could wind up in living rooms and conference rooms alike.” – Frank Ohlhorst, Channel Insider

“Just wanted to pop my head in and say I’ve heard this setup at D2Audio’s offices with some high-end speakers…Absolutely beautiful sound, even at high volumes. And if you want to know my reference, it’s a pair of DT BP 2002s hooked to an Integra 5.9.” – Chris Morley, Morley Digital

“I just built a system with the 5.1 amp card, it will be replacing my Panasonic XR57. I’m still playing around with it, but so far it’s at least equal to the performance of that unit…What really surprised me is how dead quiet this thing is with no signal playing, no hiss, pops, crackles, nothing. Would have never thought this was possible within the confines of a PC.” – Nick Billeci

“I am very excited about this build, it is currently slated to replace the following components
 Integra DTR 7.4 $1200
Toshiba HDA30 HDDVD player $250
Sony BDP300 Bluray $400
Pretty impressive that a sub 200 dollar mobo and amp card can deliver performance rivaling that of the components listed… I am thrilled so far with the results.” – Mark G.

“My initial impression on the quality is “absolutely phenomenal”, both audio and video. This was definitely worth the wait. In fact, I am ordering another one next week.” – William H.

These are just a few of the reviews and comments we have received about this platform, I have personally received similar comments from other reviewer and customers from around the globe. Therefore, as you can see, the MSI Media Live Diva platform really was designed to bring you a powerful HD audio and video experience. If you are interested in getting your hands on one of these platforms, check with your preferred online or local retailer or your preferred system integrator. In fact, next time we will talk more on this topic and discuss the pros/cons of building vs. buying an HTPC.

Till next time, Happy Trails!
jay Jay Taylor is a Senior Developer Relations Engineer at AMD. His postings are his own opinions and may not represent AMD’s positions, strategies or opinions. Links to third party sites are provided for convenience and unless explicitly stated, AMD is not responsible for the contents of such linked sites and no endorsement is implied.

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  1. #1 by Samuel - March 9th, 2009 at 10:17

    Looks cool, was going to buy a Mac Mini then I realized the audio component was missing.

  2. #2 by Leo - March 9th, 2009 at 10:18

    You mentioned “SNR < 105DB” and “SNR < 112DB.” For best sound quality, you want a high SNR. Shouldn’t your specs be greater-than signs, rather that less-than signs?

    • #3 by Jay Taylor - March 9th, 2009 at 10:31

      @Leo, Hello Leo, You are correct, the signs were incorrect. The SNR on the Amplifier card is >105dB and 112dB SNR and <0.01% THD+N. We will get that fixed right away.
      Regards,
      Jay

  3. #4 by Shane - March 9th, 2009 at 10:18

    When or where can i get one of these motherboards in Australia? You have sold me, I really want an 7411 with the 5.1 amp for my first htpc build. I have been researching for a month now and only just stumbled on this MB. Now I’m held up because i wont settle for anything less!! Thanks

    • #5 by Jay Taylor - March 9th, 2009 at 10:32

      @Shane, Hello Shane, there are a few folks over at http://www.xpmediacentre.com.au/community/ that have expressed similar interest as well. It might be worthwhile for some of you to get together and reach out to MSI and/or a distributor together to see if you can get them to bring this platform into the region. Alternatively, you can try some online sources like ebay or other WW distributors to purchase this platform. Hope this helps.
      Regards,
      Jay

  4. #6 by Dougie Fresh - March 30th, 2009 at 16:11

    This is great but I can’t get rid of my receiver/amp quite yet. The one thing my receiver/amp gives me is HDMI switching. I don’t have to change the source on my TV, just the source on my amp. That’s one well-labelled button click on one remote control (and not some fancy $200 remote with a macro programmed to do a bunch of clicks for me — my cheapo remote that came with my amp) which makes the wife or babysitting relatives very happy.

    When there’s HTPC hardware that can act as an amp and a switch I am all in. Meanwhile, I will use my external amp and my amp and live with two boxes (well, three because there’s the cable box too but that’s a whole ‘nother thread).

  5. #7 by Jay Taylor - March 30th, 2009 at 16:43

    Thanks Dougie, I appreciate your feedback. How many different devices do you have plugged into your amp/avr?

    Keep in mind, with this platform, it can be your DVD/BR player, your amp, your DVR, your music storage/playback device and more. It can be a gaming box if properly configured. When purchased from an authorized dealer, it can even be your cable box.

    It may not be perfect for everyone, but overall it is quite an impressive solution.

    I only have one box under my TV now, no more multiple remotes on the coffee table, 1 box, 1 remote.

    Regards,
    Jay

  6. #8 by Bill - April 7th, 2009 at 14:56

    How big of a power supply should you use with the Live Diva? With the 5×100 watt onboard amplifier and the PC pulling down 150 watts or so, it would seem like 650 watts or more. But all of the builds I have seen feature 450 watts or less.

    This doesn’t seem like enough power. What happens when you crank up the volume? Does the PC brown out and crash? Or is the audio board smarter than that?

    Thanks

  7. #9 by Jay Taylor - April 9th, 2009 at 11:54

    Hello Bill,

    Great question. Actually, the D2Audio design does “intelligent” power management. This is a fancy way of saying that the D2 chip is constantly watching the amount of power being pulled from the supply. If it senses a brown out condition, it will gracefully pull the volume output down until conditions are safe to restore the volume.

    Also, the 5 x 100W is not driving all the channels at the same time, it is 100W continous on any single channel for an indefinite period (200W peak on 4 Ohm speakers). The amp card pulls about 115W from the supply and appox. 93% of it goes out directly to the speakers.

    While this may not sound like a lot of power, in most conditions and rooms, it is plenty loud enough when you crank up the volume. In fact, for TV viewing, I rarely crank it over 7 or 8. For movies, I may crank it to 20 or so (assming a max value of 50 in Vista) to get the full theater effect and for Music, if I am in the room I set it at about 15-20, if I am cleaning the house, I crank it to 35-40 so I can hear it in any room and over the vacuum, etc.

    To answer the last question, depending on system config, (no. of HDDs, etc.) a 400W supply should be sufficient for a nice build with this platform.

    Hope this helps.

    Regards,
    Jay

  8. #10 by Mark Love - May 1st, 2009 at 03:53

    This sounds great, but I can’t get all of that in Aussie.
    What do you have for an AMD fan in Aussie trying to build a somewhat budget HTPC? I’m thinking of starting with a 760G mobo, an Athlon x2 cpu, and I’m not sure which ATI tuner card would work best for Aussie.

    • #11 by Jay Taylor - May 1st, 2009 at 10:58

      @Mark Love, Hello Mark. I do know that MSI was looking at how best to bring this product to market in Oz. While this board may not yet be available over there, you should be able to find a good RS780 board from MSI, Asus, Gbyte or one of the other vendors.

      I think the 780 chipset board is really the better solution for HTPC. For CPU, it somewhat depends on whether you are going to stream content to extenders or not. If not, something like a low power dual core CPU like the AMD Athlon X2 5050e would be a good choice.

      For the TV Tuner, our current TV Wonder 600 should be available. I believe the TV Wonder 600 supports DVB-T and DVB-S which I think will work for Oz.

      • #12 by Mark Love - May 3rd, 2009 at 01:51

        @Jay Taylor, Thanks Jay. Actually, I may just use the x2 3600 cpu from my wife’s PC, and get her a Phenom II. And I’ll have another look at the 780GX maybe.

  9. #13 by Mike H, - May 4th, 2009 at 19:42

    I built a system using this motherboard with the 5.1 amp card a few months back before I read your blog. It is a great MB with Sound Card and I am very pleased. I have:

    -AllInWonderHD_AIWHD3650PM Video Tuner Card
    -AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 5400+
    -LG Black Super Multi Blu-ray Disc Burner & HD DVD-ROM Drive SATA Model GGW-H20L
    -8 Gig Ram CORSAIR 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel

    It took me a while to get 64bit Vista sp1 on (I had to flash the MB to lates BIOS 1.20) for sp1 to install. Later I notice using the WMC (windows media center) caused issues eventually with the sound. Usually within 5-15 minutes of watching a move or playing music the Sound gets “tingy” (technical term). Later I read that the WMA is not certified with the ATI (AMD) All-in-wonder. So I am not sure what the actual issue is, the video card, MWA, or the sound card but if I don’t bring up the WMA at all, or I reboot after the problem and just use the Windows Media Player it sounds great without problem. Any ideas? I believe I have updated to all latest drivers and firmware flashes. Have you noticed any issues with WMC and the MS-4140?

    Thanks!

    • #14 by Jay Taylor - May 5th, 2009 at 09:40

      @Mike H,, Hello Mike,
      Thanks for the comment.

      It is difficult to say what might be going on. There is an active community over at AVS Forum discussing this board and there are several users over there that have additional experience with it. Likewise, I am active over there as well. Let’s move the discussion there so we can try to help resolve this issue for you.

      http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1003579

      Regards,
      Jay

  10. #15 by Joseph - May 31st, 2009 at 01:56

    How well does it support Linux? My mythtv setup would like to know!

  11. #16 by paratwa - July 12th, 2009 at 22:38

    I am very interested in this motherboard, it is what I have been wishing for and I really want it.
    But I have read a lot of reviews about it being unstable. Many people have had to rma this board 2 or 3 times before getting one that worked. What are you going to do to ensure a more reliable board?

    Many people have complained that you are using cheap components like to small heatsinks for the northbridge and cheap capacitors.

    Also, at least 1 e-sata port would have been nice.

    Are you going to be upgrading this board soon with a newer version?

    Check out neweggs user reviews for more information

    • #17 by Jay Taylor - July 13th, 2009 at 08:37

      @paratwa, Hello, for clarification, AMD does not produce the motherboard. It is actually manufactured by MSI. As such, I cannot comment on any future plans/products from MSI.

      As to the stability, I don’t have access to any specific data from MSI. However, my personal experience has been very positive. I have had one at home in operation since Oct. of last year without any issues.

  12. #18 by Felix Z. - July 13th, 2009 at 15:18

    It seems that the MSI mobo has only PCI-E slots whereas most dvb-s and dvb-s2 cards are PCI boards. I find this is a silly shortcoming for an HTPC mobo. Does AMD plan to fill in this gap with a PCI-E sat card in the near future?

    • #19 by Jay Taylor - July 13th, 2009 at 15:59

      @Felix Z., Hello Felix,

      I can’t comment on future AMD product plans. However, I did want to point out that we specificially chose PCIe because we wanted to support the most current up to date technology at the time of the spec definition. PCI is a very old architecture and was quickly being replaced by PCIe. It is very difficult to design new technology that supports both legacy architectures and the newer bus technologies. As such, we decided to eliminate legacy technologies (PS2 Keyboard/mice, 3.5mm audio jacks, PCI, LPT ports, etc.) and instead focus this platform on the most up to date technologies available.

      Furthermore, upon our investigation, we found that for most cards that used PCI were also available in PCIe.

      I believe Cerona Networks has a PCIe based DVB-S card on the market. I cannot tell you where to get one, but you might contact them to see if they can offer any local sources for the card.

      http://www.cerona.com/technology-xpress-card.html

      Likewise, Twinhan has a product listed on their web as well for DVB-S.

      http://www.twinhan.com/product_AD-SE200.asp

      Here is still another card that I was able to find after a quick search.

      http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/240751481/PCI_Express_DVB_S2_TBS6920_card.html

      • #20 by Felix Z. - July 14th, 2009 at 10:35

        @Jay Taylor, Thanks for the references. Unfortunately (in Europe) PCI-e sat cards vendors are still not as commonplace. I won’t need mine for the immediate future so hopefully availability will increase by the time I’ll be shopping around. In the meantime I’ve placed an order for the Live Diva mobo. Hopefully I’ll have a relatively smooth build!

  13. #21 by Meex - August 11th, 2009 at 13:37

    Wow, i will buy that stuff ! Super idea, all in one no more a amplifier and unuseful dvd playes or bluRay! ;)

  14. #22 by John - August 19th, 2009 at 10:56

    While this is great and a step in the right direction what us HTPC enthusiast find the most frustrating is widespread support for audio pap and non-downsampled audio. There are only two solutions on the market today that will accomplish this, the Asus Xonar and Auzentech Home Theater HD. When will more hardware manufacturers embrace bitstreaming HD multichannel audio without downsampling?

    • #23 by Jay Taylor - August 19th, 2009 at 13:41

      @John, Hello John,

      See my response to your question in the HTPC blog. This is a complex issue that will require multiple parties to work together to bring the best solutions to market.

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