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	<title>Comments on: MobileMark 2007, 60 nits, One Nit-Picker and You</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.amd.com/patmoorhead/2009/06/10/mobilemark-2007-60-nits-one-nit-picker-and-you/</link>
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	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 14:19:58 -0600</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Don</title>
		<link>http://blogs.amd.com/patmoorhead/2009/06/10/mobilemark-2007-60-nits-one-nit-picker-and-you/comment-page-1/#comment-1091</link>
		<dc:creator>Don</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 01:06:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.amd.com/patmoorhead/?p=1093#comment-1091</guid>
		<description>60 nits is just not real world testing. I would suggest at least 150 nits and while running some sort of standard DVD movie.
This would give us a more realistic idea about battery performance under real wrld conditions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>60 nits is just not real world testing. I would suggest at least 150 nits and while running some sort of standard DVD movie.<br />
This would give us a more realistic idea about battery performance under real wrld conditions.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeffrey David Morris</title>
		<link>http://blogs.amd.com/patmoorhead/2009/06/10/mobilemark-2007-60-nits-one-nit-picker-and-you/comment-page-1/#comment-1090</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeffrey David Morris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 00:36:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.amd.com/patmoorhead/?p=1093#comment-1090</guid>
		<description>Listen, between you two (BOTH - AMD &amp; Intel), I figure with a quad core board and processor, I &#039;get&#039; there&#039;s about roughly 7 conponment&#039;s that make up a general desktop; aside from the board and processor, I figure I can probably get away with whatever general basic generic other part&#039;s, thus, making a barebones system for under $600. I can always upgrade other conponment&#039;s later, ;use my existing ram memory (I know, I know), but, I gotta get rid of this ugh - HP/Compaq sr 1810NX &#039;single&#039; processor soon. I can&#039;t stand it. I just upgraded to 15mbps with Time Warner recently and that&#039;s fine, but I gotta do this thing with the pc (you know). The only other componment I need is the thermal chassis/tower, which I seperately want to load up with fan&#039;s, even if mounted to the sliding off side along where the little hole&#039;s/grill are (I want it cool - temp). Never mind about mouse, keyboard, misc, I&#039;ll take care of that stuff later. I just (in my mind) need to get a quad core system &#039;on the board&#039; in my mind (exhibited). I can transfer my existing xp home/ie 6, etc stuff to the new pc, then scrap the old one (which I have now). But like I said, I &#039;get&#039; there&#039;s 7 that make up a whole, thus, the sole item&#039;s I care about the most are the board and processor, nothing less than quadcore, more less, you know. All the other item&#039;s that&#039;ll make up the 7 - system, I can probably get away with whatever general basic generic other part&#039;s. Please, between you two (BOTH - AMD &amp; Intel), put aside your difference&#039;s and kindly help me devise, misc which is better. No fighting, please, just help me a customer, so I can go to a third party seller with the info and buy the thing. Can we do that, or is ego, etc/misc gonna get in the way? Come on, it&#039;s quite simple, we can do this, simply . . . between AMD&#039;s Phenom 9950 Black Edition (whatever related board and processor) AND Intel&#039;s DP965LT and QX6700/Q6700), as I&#039;m clearly not gonna get a straight answer out of Consumer Reports, can we PLEASE just do this . . . it does not have to be this difficult; policy this, policy that, come on, please . . .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Listen, between you two (BOTH &#8211; AMD &amp; Intel), I figure with a quad core board and processor, I &#8216;get&#8217; there&#8217;s about roughly 7 conponment&#8217;s that make up a general desktop; aside from the board and processor, I figure I can probably get away with whatever general basic generic other part&#8217;s, thus, making a barebones system for under $600. I can always upgrade other conponment&#8217;s later, ;use my existing ram memory (I know, I know), but, I gotta get rid of this ugh &#8211; HP/Compaq sr 1810NX &#8217;single&#8217; processor soon. I can&#8217;t stand it. I just upgraded to 15mbps with Time Warner recently and that&#8217;s fine, but I gotta do this thing with the pc (you know). The only other componment I need is the thermal chassis/tower, which I seperately want to load up with fan&#8217;s, even if mounted to the sliding off side along where the little hole&#8217;s/grill are (I want it cool &#8211; temp). Never mind about mouse, keyboard, misc, I&#8217;ll take care of that stuff later. I just (in my mind) need to get a quad core system &#8216;on the board&#8217; in my mind (exhibited). I can transfer my existing xp home/ie 6, etc stuff to the new pc, then scrap the old one (which I have now). But like I said, I &#8216;get&#8217; there&#8217;s 7 that make up a whole, thus, the sole item&#8217;s I care about the most are the board and processor, nothing less than quadcore, more less, you know. All the other item&#8217;s that&#8217;ll make up the 7 &#8211; system, I can probably get away with whatever general basic generic other part&#8217;s. Please, between you two (BOTH &#8211; AMD &amp; Intel), put aside your difference&#8217;s and kindly help me devise, misc which is better. No fighting, please, just help me a customer, so I can go to a third party seller with the info and buy the thing. Can we do that, or is ego, etc/misc gonna get in the way? Come on, it&#8217;s quite simple, we can do this, simply . . . between AMD&#8217;s Phenom 9950 Black Edition (whatever related board and processor) AND Intel&#8217;s DP965LT and QX6700/Q6700), as I&#8217;m clearly not gonna get a straight answer out of Consumer Reports, can we PLEASE just do this . . . it does not have to be this difficult; policy this, policy that, come on, please . . .</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick Moorhead</title>
		<link>http://blogs.amd.com/patmoorhead/2009/06/10/mobilemark-2007-60-nits-one-nit-picker-and-you/comment-page-1/#comment-1087</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick Moorhead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 19:20:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.amd.com/patmoorhead/?p=1093#comment-1087</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1082&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Toby Hudon&lt;/a&gt;, great comments, thanks.  We are recommending the min-max model, similarly that comes on all cellphones and smartphones (standby-talk time) and car gas mileage (city-highway).  For now, consumers get better battery life info from a $20 cellphone than they do from a $799 laptop.  The challenge on consumers getting notebook battery life reviews is that very few people are doing them and if they are they are using MM07, only 1 part of the min-max equation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-1082" rel="nofollow">@Toby Hudon</a>, great comments, thanks.  We are recommending the min-max model, similarly that comes on all cellphones and smartphones (standby-talk time) and car gas mileage (city-highway).  For now, consumers get better battery life info from a $20 cellphone than they do from a $799 laptop.  The challenge on consumers getting notebook battery life reviews is that very few people are doing them and if they are they are using MM07, only 1 part of the min-max equation.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick Moorhead</title>
		<link>http://blogs.amd.com/patmoorhead/2009/06/10/mobilemark-2007-60-nits-one-nit-picker-and-you/comment-page-1/#comment-1086</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick Moorhead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 19:15:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.amd.com/patmoorhead/?p=1093#comment-1086</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1081&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Nedjo&lt;/a&gt;, thanks for the comment.  As I comments to Cliff above, it sure seems like WiFi should be on, screen brightness could be higher and apps that take the system beyone 7% could be used.  Particularly with more people using a notebook as their primary PC and with the rise of rich internet content with Flash.  Doing our own benchmarks is a challenge too, in that everyone will question it bc we published it.  We march on.....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-1081" rel="nofollow">@Nedjo</a>, thanks for the comment.  As I comments to Cliff above, it sure seems like WiFi should be on, screen brightness could be higher and apps that take the system beyone 7% could be used.  Particularly with more people using a notebook as their primary PC and with the rise of rich internet content with Flash.  Doing our own benchmarks is a challenge too, in that everyone will question it bc we published it.  We march on&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick Moorhead</title>
		<link>http://blogs.amd.com/patmoorhead/2009/06/10/mobilemark-2007-60-nits-one-nit-picker-and-you/comment-page-1/#comment-1085</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick Moorhead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 19:11:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.amd.com/patmoorhead/?p=1093#comment-1085</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1080&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Cliff Forster&lt;/a&gt;, do you mean to tell me that consumers have WiFi on, have their display set beyone 30% and use their CPU more than 10% of the time? :)  Are you sure?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-1080" rel="nofollow">@Cliff Forster</a>, do you mean to tell me that consumers have WiFi on, have their display set beyone 30% and use their CPU more than 10% of the time? <img src='http://blogs.amd.com/patmoorhead/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />   Are you sure?</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick Moorhead</title>
		<link>http://blogs.amd.com/patmoorhead/2009/06/10/mobilemark-2007-60-nits-one-nit-picker-and-you/comment-page-1/#comment-1084</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick Moorhead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 19:08:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.amd.com/patmoorhead/?p=1093#comment-1084</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1079&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Shaun Marolf&lt;/a&gt;, Shaun, thanks for the comment.  Someone in the industry needs to point these things out for the sake of consumers and the industry.  In the Windows world they have CPU throttling of voltage and frequency, which is built into Windows.  The biggest challenge is for the mainstream users who can only rely on advertisements to educate them.  They won&#039;t know the difference.  Thats where someone needs to establish a min-max battery life rating like are used in cellphones and car mileage per gallon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-1079" rel="nofollow">@Shaun Marolf</a>, Shaun, thanks for the comment.  Someone in the industry needs to point these things out for the sake of consumers and the industry.  In the Windows world they have CPU throttling of voltage and frequency, which is built into Windows.  The biggest challenge is for the mainstream users who can only rely on advertisements to educate them.  They won&#8217;t know the difference.  Thats where someone needs to establish a min-max battery life rating like are used in cellphones and car mileage per gallon.</p>
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		<title>By: Toby Hudon</title>
		<link>http://blogs.amd.com/patmoorhead/2009/06/10/mobilemark-2007-60-nits-one-nit-picker-and-you/comment-page-1/#comment-1082</link>
		<dc:creator>Toby Hudon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 21:25:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.amd.com/patmoorhead/?p=1093#comment-1082</guid>
		<description>Not all that surprising. Most people are going to instinctively optimize for whatever their concern is at the time. Very few people are going to sit down and work out exactly what brightness setting lets them work X minutes with their laptop. Virtually everyone is just going to go for comfort and most displays don&#039;t get bright enough to become uncomfortable so that means max setting. The exception will be people who&#039;re worried about running out of power who will run min settings or as close to it as they can stand.

And once set, few people are going to change their brightness depending on what they&#039;re doing (reading a site vs watching a movie or gaming). This is one reason ambient light sensors are popular in laptops because people just won&#039;t bother to readjust the backlight all the time.

The thing is it&#039;s really really hard to get an objective benchmark of something like battery life when there are subjective components like eyesight and environment involved. A user who works outside in the sun will use a brighter display than one who works in a darkened room. In the end, all reviews are subjective, but nobody wants to admit that because it means trading on their credibility as reviewers. Ironically this is where print media should be focusing its attention vs the online competition. They&#039;ll never compete on news, what they need to do is compete on quality. I will care more about a review by someone I know, or someone who&#039;s opinion I&#039;ve consistently agreed with in the past. Readers don&#039;t want objectivity, they want useful information, and a reviewer&#039;s bias and expertise are both part of that.

Without that, everything becomes a minmax game with the benchmarks. Which we&#039;ve seen time and again with everything from CPUs to video cards to battery life now. In the end people will just throw up their hands and stop believing anything said about battery life unless it&#039;s someone they know personally.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not all that surprising. Most people are going to instinctively optimize for whatever their concern is at the time. Very few people are going to sit down and work out exactly what brightness setting lets them work X minutes with their laptop. Virtually everyone is just going to go for comfort and most displays don&#8217;t get bright enough to become uncomfortable so that means max setting. The exception will be people who&#8217;re worried about running out of power who will run min settings or as close to it as they can stand.</p>
<p>And once set, few people are going to change their brightness depending on what they&#8217;re doing (reading a site vs watching a movie or gaming). This is one reason ambient light sensors are popular in laptops because people just won&#8217;t bother to readjust the backlight all the time.</p>
<p>The thing is it&#8217;s really really hard to get an objective benchmark of something like battery life when there are subjective components like eyesight and environment involved. A user who works outside in the sun will use a brighter display than one who works in a darkened room. In the end, all reviews are subjective, but nobody wants to admit that because it means trading on their credibility as reviewers. Ironically this is where print media should be focusing its attention vs the online competition. They&#8217;ll never compete on news, what they need to do is compete on quality. I will care more about a review by someone I know, or someone who&#8217;s opinion I&#8217;ve consistently agreed with in the past. Readers don&#8217;t want objectivity, they want useful information, and a reviewer&#8217;s bias and expertise are both part of that.</p>
<p>Without that, everything becomes a minmax game with the benchmarks. Which we&#8217;ve seen time and again with everything from CPUs to video cards to battery life now. In the end people will just throw up their hands and stop believing anything said about battery life unless it&#8217;s someone they know personally.</p>
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		<title>By: Nedjo</title>
		<link>http://blogs.amd.com/patmoorhead/2009/06/10/mobilemark-2007-60-nits-one-nit-picker-and-you/comment-page-1/#comment-1081</link>
		<dc:creator>Nedjo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 21:11:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.amd.com/patmoorhead/?p=1093#comment-1081</guid>
		<description>Amazing article!

This is just a tip of the iceberg when it comes to... err &quot;industry&quot; of benchmarking!!

Majority of so-called &quot;industry standard&quot; benchmarks are completely disconnected from any reasonable end-user scenarios!

And the saddest part in this story is the fact that people who&#039;re living out of benchmarking - IT journalists are not trying to do absolutely anything about it! Only exception is Johan De Gelas who practically invented new virtualization benchmark that reflects real-world much better than VMmark!

http://it.anandtech.com/IT/showdoc.aspx?i=3567

I urge AMD tech labs to work on different new benchmarks, and to make them available for media guys and end users. Approach should be similar to Windows Movie maker, and WinRAR benchmarks - AMD provides benchmark, and users are free to use their own content for those benchmarks so that objectivity and Independence of media isn&#039;t questioned!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amazing article!</p>
<p>This is just a tip of the iceberg when it comes to&#8230; err &#8220;industry&#8221; of benchmarking!!</p>
<p>Majority of so-called &#8220;industry standard&#8221; benchmarks are completely disconnected from any reasonable end-user scenarios!</p>
<p>And the saddest part in this story is the fact that people who&#8217;re living out of benchmarking &#8211; IT journalists are not trying to do absolutely anything about it! Only exception is Johan De Gelas who practically invented new virtualization benchmark that reflects real-world much better than VMmark!</p>
<p><a href="http://it.anandtech.com/IT/showdoc.aspx?i=3567" rel="nofollow">http://it.anandtech.com/IT/showdoc.aspx?i=3567</a></p>
<p>I urge AMD tech labs to work on different new benchmarks, and to make them available for media guys and end users. Approach should be similar to Windows Movie maker, and WinRAR benchmarks &#8211; AMD provides benchmark, and users are free to use their own content for those benchmarks so that objectivity and Independence of media isn&#8217;t questioned!</p>
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		<title>By: Cliff Forster</title>
		<link>http://blogs.amd.com/patmoorhead/2009/06/10/mobilemark-2007-60-nits-one-nit-picker-and-you/comment-page-1/#comment-1080</link>
		<dc:creator>Cliff Forster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 20:49:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.amd.com/patmoorhead/?p=1093#comment-1080</guid>
		<description>Patrick,

I think the fundamental issue with MM07 is the fact that the benchmark makers obviously did very little research about how people actually use products.  I don&#039;t mean to be negative, but I think its fairly obvious that MM07 is the preferred method because it returns favorable statistics for manufactures of mobile electronics.

Thanks for sticking with this issue.  Hopefully consumers will stand up and say, enough is enough. We all should demand proper statistics to assist us with our buying decisions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Patrick,</p>
<p>I think the fundamental issue with MM07 is the fact that the benchmark makers obviously did very little research about how people actually use products.  I don&#8217;t mean to be negative, but I think its fairly obvious that MM07 is the preferred method because it returns favorable statistics for manufactures of mobile electronics.</p>
<p>Thanks for sticking with this issue.  Hopefully consumers will stand up and say, enough is enough. We all should demand proper statistics to assist us with our buying decisions.</p>
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		<title>By: Shaun Marolf</title>
		<link>http://blogs.amd.com/patmoorhead/2009/06/10/mobilemark-2007-60-nits-one-nit-picker-and-you/comment-page-1/#comment-1079</link>
		<dc:creator>Shaun Marolf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 20:40:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.amd.com/patmoorhead/?p=1093#comment-1079</guid>
		<description>Glad to see someone taking on a more real life scenario to battery life. as I twitted my screen is at 50% when on battery. That&#039;s usable for me but still well above MM07 levels. I think you will also find the same when you ask about CPU throttling. Yes it saves battery life but really slows down the laptop. Fortunately being a Linux user I have the automatic throttling option. During low demand states the CPU is held back. However when things start bottle necking it opens to handle the demand. I find this the best option overall. I get longer battery life but I don&#039;t have to wait for the system to play catch up either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glad to see someone taking on a more real life scenario to battery life. as I twitted my screen is at 50% when on battery. That&#8217;s usable for me but still well above MM07 levels. I think you will also find the same when you ask about CPU throttling. Yes it saves battery life but really slows down the laptop. Fortunately being a Linux user I have the automatic throttling option. During low demand states the CPU is held back. However when things start bottle necking it opens to handle the demand. I find this the best option overall. I get longer battery life but I don&#8217;t have to wait for the system to play catch up either.</p>
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